  

<table class="width100" style="width:100%;" data-cellspacing="1">
<colgroup>
<col style="width: 16%" />
<col style="width: 16%" />
<col style="width: 16%" />
<col style="width: 16%" />
<col style="width: 16%" />
<col style="width: 16%" />
</colgroup>
<tbody>
<tr class="odd">
<td colspan="6" class="form-title"><div class="center">
ETSI's Bug Tracker - Part 01: TTCN-3 Core Language
</div></td>
</tr>
<tr class="even">
<td colspan="6" class="form-title">View Issue Details</td>
</tr>
<tr class="odd">
<td colspan="6" class="print-spacer"><hr /></td>
</tr>
<tr class="even print-category">
<td class="print" width="16%">ID</td>
<td class="print" width="16%">Project</td>
<td class="print" width="16%">Category</td>
<td class="print" width="16%">View Status</td>
<td class="print" width="16%">Date Submitted</td>
<td class="print" width="16%">Last Update</td>
</tr>
<tr class="odd print">
<td class="print">0005961</td>
<td class="print">Part 01: TTCN-3 Core Language</td>
<td class="print">Editorial</td>
<td class="print">public</td>
<td class="print">21-11-2011 11:54</td>
<td class="print">09-08-2012 13:54</td>
</tr>
<tr class="even">
<td colspan="6" class="print-spacer"><hr /></td>
</tr>
<tr class="odd print">
<td class="print-category">Reporter</td>
<td class="print">Bogdan Stanca-Kaposta</td>
<td colspan="4" class="print"> </td>
</tr>
<tr class="even print">
<td class="print-category">Assigned To</td>
<td class="print">Ina Schieferdecker</td>
<td colspan="4" class="print"> </td>
</tr>
<tr class="odd print">
<td class="print-category">Priority</td>
<td class="print">normal</td>
<td class="print-category">Severity</td>
<td class="print">major</td>
<td class="print-category">Reproducibility</td>
<td class="print">N/A</td>
</tr>
<tr class="even print">
<td class="print-category">Status</td>
<td class="print">closed</td>
<td class="print-category">Resolution</td>
<td class="print">fixed</td>
<td colspan="2" class="print"> </td>
</tr>
<tr class="odd print">
<td class="print-category">Platform</td>
<td class="print"></td>
<td class="print-category">OS</td>
<td class="print"></td>
<td class="print-category">OS Version</td>
<td class="print"></td>
</tr>
<tr class="even print">
<td class="print-category">Product Version</td>
<td class="print"></td>
<td colspan="4" class="print"> </td>
</tr>
<tr class="odd">
<td class="print-category">Target Version</td>
<td class="print">v4.5.1 (published 2013-04)</td>
<td class="print-category">Fixed in Version</td>
<td class="print">v4.5.1 (published 2013-04)</td>
<td colspan="2" class="print"> </td>
</tr>
<tr class="even print">
<td class="print-category">Clause Reference(s)</td>
<td colspan="4" class="print">15.8.c (page 121) of ETSI ES 201 873-1
V4.3.1 (2011-06)</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr class="odd print">
<td class="print-category">Source (company - Author)</td>
<td colspan="4" class="print">STF 433</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr class="even">
<td colspan="6" class="print-spacer"><hr /></td>
</tr>
<tr class="odd print">
<td class="print-category">Summary</td>
<td colspan="5" class="print">0005961: Table of template restrictions is
wrong</td>
</tr>
<tr class="even print">
<td class="print-category">Description</td>
<td colspan="5" class="print">The Table 14: "Restricting modified
templates" is wrong since the a template of a stronger constraint can
always be safely modified (same as cast in object oriented languages) to
a weaker constraint.<br />
<br />
e.g.<br />
<br />
 templates of kind template(omit) or template(value) can be modified to
template(omit)<br />
 <br />
 // definitions of restricted templates<br />
 type record ExampleType {<br />
    integer a,<br />
    boolean b optional<br />
 }<br />
 template(value) ExampleType exampleValue:= { 1, true };<br />
 template(present) ExampleType examplePresent modifies exampleValue := {
a := ? };</td>
</tr>
<tr class="odd print">
<td class="print-category">Steps To Reproduce</td>
<td colspan="5" class="print"></td>
</tr>
<tr class="even print">
<td class="print-category">Additional Information</td>
<td colspan="5" class="print"></td>
</tr>
<tr class="odd print">
<td class="print-category">Tags</td>
<td colspan="5" class="print">No tags attached.</td>
</tr>
<tr class="even print">
<td class="print-category">Relationships</td>
<td colspan="5" class="print"></td>
</tr>
<tr class="odd print">
<td class="print-category">Attached Files</td>
<td colspan="5" class="print"><img
src="http://oldforge.etsi.org/mantis/images/fileicons/doc.gif"
alt="doc" /> CR5961_resolution_v1.doc (121,856) <span
class="italic">19-07-2012 17:06</span><br />
http://oldforge.etsi.org/mantis/file_download.php?file_id=2704&amp;type=bug</td>
</tr>
<tr class="even">
<td colspan="6" class="print-spacer"><hr /></td>
</tr>
<tr class="odd">
<td class="form-title">Issue History</td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr class="even print-category">
<td class="row-category-history">Date Modified</td>
<td class="row-category-history">Username</td>
<td class="row-category-history">Field</td>
<td class="row-category-history">Change</td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr class="odd print">
<td class="print">21-11-2011 11:54</td>
<td class="print"><a
href="http://oldforge.etsi.org/mantis/view_user_page.php?id=699">Bogdan
Stanca-Kaposta</a></td>
<td class="print">New Issue</td>
<td class="print"></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr class="even print">
<td class="print">21-11-2011 11:54</td>
<td class="print"><a
href="http://oldforge.etsi.org/mantis/view_user_page.php?id=699">Bogdan
Stanca-Kaposta</a></td>
<td class="print">Clause Reference(s)</td>
<td class="print">=&gt; 15.8.c (page 121) of ETSI ES 201 873-1 V4.3.1
(2011-06)</td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr class="odd print">
<td class="print">21-11-2011 11:54</td>
<td class="print"><a
href="http://oldforge.etsi.org/mantis/view_user_page.php?id=699">Bogdan
Stanca-Kaposta</a></td>
<td class="print">Source (company - Author)</td>
<td class="print">=&gt; STF 433</td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr class="even print">
<td class="print">28-11-2011 09:20</td>
<td class="print"><a
href="http://oldforge.etsi.org/mantis/view_user_page.php?id=127">Gyorgy
Rethy</a></td>
<td class="print">Note Added: 0010326</td>
<td class="print"></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr class="odd print">
<td class="print">28-11-2011 09:27</td>
<td class="print"><a
href="http://oldforge.etsi.org/mantis/view_user_page.php?id=127">Gyorgy
Rethy</a></td>
<td class="print">Project</td>
<td class="print">TTCN-3 Change Requests =&gt; Part 01: TTCN-3 Core
Language</td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr class="even print">
<td class="print">28-11-2011 09:38</td>
<td class="print"><a
href="http://oldforge.etsi.org/mantis/view_user_page.php?id=127">Gyorgy
Rethy</a></td>
<td class="print">Note Edited: 0010326</td>
<td class="print"></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr class="odd print">
<td class="print">28-11-2011 09:38</td>
<td class="print"><a
href="http://oldforge.etsi.org/mantis/view_user_page.php?id=127">Gyorgy
Rethy</a></td>
<td class="print">Target Version</td>
<td class="print">=&gt; Edition 4.4.1</td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr class="even print">
<td class="print">28-11-2011 09:58</td>
<td class="print"><a
href="http://oldforge.etsi.org/mantis/view_user_page.php?id=508">Jacob
Wieland - Spirent</a></td>
<td class="print">Note Added: 0010330</td>
<td class="print"></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr class="odd print">
<td class="print">28-11-2011 15:21</td>
<td class="print"><a
href="http://oldforge.etsi.org/mantis/view_user_page.php?id=127">Gyorgy
Rethy</a></td>
<td class="print">Note Added: 0010353</td>
<td class="print"></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr class="even print">
<td class="print">29-11-2011 14:26</td>
<td class="print"><a
href="http://oldforge.etsi.org/mantis/view_user_page.php?id=508">Jacob
Wieland - Spirent</a></td>
<td class="print">Note Added: 0010400</td>
<td class="print"></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr class="odd print">
<td class="print">30-11-2011 10:49</td>
<td class="print"><a
href="http://oldforge.etsi.org/mantis/view_user_page.php?id=127">Gyorgy
Rethy</a></td>
<td class="print">Note Added: 0010427</td>
<td class="print"></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr class="even print">
<td class="print">30-11-2011 10:49</td>
<td class="print"><a
href="http://oldforge.etsi.org/mantis/view_user_page.php?id=127">Gyorgy
Rethy</a></td>
<td class="print">Target Version</td>
<td class="print">Edition 4.4.1 =&gt; v4.7.1 (published 2015-06)</td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr class="odd print">
<td class="print">10-07-2012 19:29</td>
<td class="print"><a
href="http://oldforge.etsi.org/mantis/view_user_page.php?id=127">Gyorgy
Rethy</a></td>
<td class="print">Note Added: 0010780</td>
<td class="print"></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr class="even print">
<td class="print">10-07-2012 19:29</td>
<td class="print"><a
href="http://oldforge.etsi.org/mantis/view_user_page.php?id=127">Gyorgy
Rethy</a></td>
<td class="print">Status</td>
<td class="print">new =&gt; closed</td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr class="odd print">
<td class="print">10-07-2012 19:29</td>
<td class="print"><a
href="http://oldforge.etsi.org/mantis/view_user_page.php?id=127">Gyorgy
Rethy</a></td>
<td class="print">Resolution</td>
<td class="print">open =&gt; won't fix</td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr class="even print">
<td class="print">11-07-2012 10:16</td>
<td class="print"><a
href="http://oldforge.etsi.org/mantis/view_user_page.php?id=508">Jacob
Wieland - Spirent</a></td>
<td class="print">Status</td>
<td class="print">closed =&gt; feedback</td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr class="odd print">
<td class="print">11-07-2012 10:16</td>
<td class="print"><a
href="http://oldforge.etsi.org/mantis/view_user_page.php?id=508">Jacob
Wieland - Spirent</a></td>
<td class="print">Resolution</td>
<td class="print">won't fix =&gt; reopened</td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr class="even print">
<td class="print">11-07-2012 10:16</td>
<td class="print"><a
href="http://oldforge.etsi.org/mantis/view_user_page.php?id=508">Jacob
Wieland - Spirent</a></td>
<td class="print">Note Added: 0010808</td>
<td class="print"></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr class="odd print">
<td class="print">12-07-2012 15:51</td>
<td class="print"><a
href="http://oldforge.etsi.org/mantis/view_user_page.php?id=127">Gyorgy
Rethy</a></td>
<td class="print">Note Added: 0010891</td>
<td class="print"></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr class="even print">
<td class="print">12-07-2012 16:11</td>
<td class="print"><a
href="http://oldforge.etsi.org/mantis/view_user_page.php?id=508">Jacob
Wieland - Spirent</a></td>
<td class="print">Note Added: 0010894</td>
<td class="print"></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr class="odd print">
<td class="print">12-07-2012 16:23</td>
<td class="print"><a
href="http://oldforge.etsi.org/mantis/view_user_page.php?id=508">Jacob
Wieland - Spirent</a></td>
<td class="print">Note Edited: 0010894</td>
<td class="print"></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr class="even print">
<td class="print">19-07-2012 17:02</td>
<td class="print"><a
href="http://oldforge.etsi.org/mantis/view_user_page.php?id=127">Gyorgy
Rethy</a></td>
<td class="print">Note Added: 0010941</td>
<td class="print"></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr class="odd print">
<td class="print">19-07-2012 17:02</td>
<td class="print"><a
href="http://oldforge.etsi.org/mantis/view_user_page.php?id=127">Gyorgy
Rethy</a></td>
<td class="print">Status</td>
<td class="print">feedback =&gt; assigned</td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr class="even print">
<td class="print">19-07-2012 17:02</td>
<td class="print"><a
href="http://oldforge.etsi.org/mantis/view_user_page.php?id=127">Gyorgy
Rethy</a></td>
<td class="print">Assigned To</td>
<td class="print">=&gt; Gyorgy Rethy</td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr class="odd print">
<td class="print">19-07-2012 17:05</td>
<td class="print"><a
href="http://oldforge.etsi.org/mantis/view_user_page.php?id=127">Gyorgy
Rethy</a></td>
<td class="print">Note Edited: 0010941</td>
<td class="print"></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr class="even print">
<td class="print">19-07-2012 17:06</td>
<td class="print"><a
href="http://oldforge.etsi.org/mantis/view_user_page.php?id=127">Gyorgy
Rethy</a></td>
<td class="print">File Added: CR5961_resolution_v1.doc</td>
<td class="print"></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr class="odd print">
<td class="print">07-08-2012 15:44</td>
<td class="print"><a
href="http://oldforge.etsi.org/mantis/view_user_page.php?id=508">Jacob
Wieland - Spirent</a></td>
<td class="print">Note Added: 0010985</td>
<td class="print"></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr class="even print">
<td class="print">09-08-2012 08:58</td>
<td class="print"><a
href="http://oldforge.etsi.org/mantis/view_user_page.php?id=127">Gyorgy
Rethy</a></td>
<td class="print">Assigned To</td>
<td class="print">Gyorgy Rethy =&gt; Ina Schieferdecker</td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr class="odd print">
<td class="print">09-08-2012 08:58</td>
<td class="print"><a
href="http://oldforge.etsi.org/mantis/view_user_page.php?id=127">Gyorgy
Rethy</a></td>
<td class="print">Status</td>
<td class="print">assigned =&gt; resolved</td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr class="even print">
<td class="print">09-08-2012 08:58</td>
<td class="print"><a
href="http://oldforge.etsi.org/mantis/view_user_page.php?id=127">Gyorgy
Rethy</a></td>
<td class="print">Resolution</td>
<td class="print">reopened =&gt; fixed</td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr class="odd print">
<td class="print">09-08-2012 08:58</td>
<td class="print"><a
href="http://oldforge.etsi.org/mantis/view_user_page.php?id=127">Gyorgy
Rethy</a></td>
<td class="print">Fixed in Version</td>
<td class="print">=&gt; Edition 4.5.1</td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr class="even print">
<td class="print">09-08-2012 13:54</td>
<td class="print"><a
href="http://oldforge.etsi.org/mantis/view_user_page.php?id=81">Ina
Schieferdecker</a></td>
<td class="print">Note Added: 0011007</td>
<td class="print"></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr class="odd print">
<td class="print">09-08-2012 13:54</td>
<td class="print"><a
href="http://oldforge.etsi.org/mantis/view_user_page.php?id=81">Ina
Schieferdecker</a></td>
<td class="print">Status</td>
<td class="print">resolved =&gt; closed</td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>

  

<table class="width100" data-cellspacing="1">
<colgroup>
<col style="width: 50%" />
<col style="width: 50%" />
</colgroup>
<tbody>
<tr class="odd">
<td colspan="2" class="form-title">Notes</td>
</tr>
<tr class="even">
<td colspan="2" class="print-spacer"><hr /></td>
</tr>
<tr class="odd">
<td class="nopad" data-valign="top" width="20%"><table class="hide"
data-cellspacing="1">
<colgroup>
<col style="width: 100%" />
</colgroup>
<tbody>
<tr class="odd">
<td class="print">(0010326)</td>
</tr>
<tr class="even">
<td class="print"><a
href="http://oldforge.etsi.org/mantis/view_user_page.php?id=127">Gyorgy
Rethy</a>   </td>
</tr>
<tr class="odd">
<td class="print">28-11-2011 09:20   <br />
(edited on: 28-11-2011 09:38)</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table></td>
<td class="nopad" data-valign="top" width="85%"><table class="hide"
data-cellspacing="1">
<colgroup>
<col style="width: 100%" />
</colgroup>
<tbody>
<tr class="odd">
<td class="print">In principle anything could be modified to anything
else. The purpose of $15.8 restr. c) is to disallow this kind of
anything-to-anything modification. Therefore anyone specifying a base
template with a certain restriction can be sure that all children
modified templates inherit the restriction and cannot override the
limitation. Think about SW libraries, where both base templates and API
functions are defined with a certain restriction in mind and API
function calls cannot fail until the user of the API is calling the
functions with modified templates based on the base templates of the
lib.<br />
<br />
Anyone who wants to have modified templates with weaker restriction
shall base them on a base template with weaker restriction.<br />
<br />
I propose is to reject the CR.<br />
<br />
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table></td>
</tr>
<tr class="even">
<td colspan="2" class="print-spacer"><hr /></td>
</tr>
<tr class="odd">
<td class="nopad" data-valign="top" width="20%"><table class="hide"
data-cellspacing="1">
<tbody>
<tr class="odd">
<td class="print">(0010330)</td>
</tr>
<tr class="even">
<td class="print"><a
href="http://oldforge.etsi.org/mantis/view_user_page.php?id=508">Jacob
Wieland - Spirent</a>   </td>
</tr>
<tr class="odd">
<td class="print">28-11-2011 09:58   </td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table></td>
<td class="nopad" data-valign="top" width="85%"><table class="hide"
data-cellspacing="1">
<colgroup>
<col style="width: 100%" />
</colgroup>
<tbody>
<tr class="odd">
<td class="print">First of all, weakening the restriction is NOT an
"anything-to-anything" restriction, but a cleanly defined one. It is the
only one which can be done safely without having to do additional checks
on the modified template (other than in the strengthening restriction
where the whole template needs to be re-evaluated to see if it fits the
new stronger restriction).<br />
<br />
To keep the restriction of the template-to-be-modified or make it
stronger in the modifying template does not make any sense whatsoever,
in my opinion. If this CR is rejected, then I propose to not relate the
restrictions of modified and modifying templates whatsoever as it is
simply confusing that nonsensical relations are allowed and sensible
ones are disallowed.<br />
<br />
In principle, from the user point-of-view, modifying templates is just a
shortcut way or re-using already existing templates. The user should be
free to use this feature to their best advantage (whatever that might be
in different cases).</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table></td>
</tr>
<tr class="even">
<td colspan="2" class="print-spacer"><hr /></td>
</tr>
<tr class="odd">
<td class="nopad" data-valign="top" width="20%"><table class="hide"
data-cellspacing="1">
<tbody>
<tr class="odd">
<td class="print">(0010353)</td>
</tr>
<tr class="even">
<td class="print"><a
href="http://oldforge.etsi.org/mantis/view_user_page.php?id=127">Gyorgy
Rethy</a>   </td>
</tr>
<tr class="odd">
<td class="print">28-11-2011 15:21   </td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table></td>
<td class="nopad" data-valign="top" width="85%"><table class="hide"
data-cellspacing="1">
<tbody>
<tr class="odd">
<td class="print">STF discussion 28/11: relaxing is requested due to a
use case, where templates are derived from traces and those templates be
used as bases for both sending and receiving. One option could be to
require compatibility by definition in table 13. However, this would
cause backward compatibility problems. the proposal needs further
discussion to find a common solution. Add an example for both use
cases.</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table></td>
</tr>
<tr class="even">
<td colspan="2" class="print-spacer"><hr /></td>
</tr>
<tr class="odd">
<td class="nopad" data-valign="top" width="20%"><table class="hide"
data-cellspacing="1">
<tbody>
<tr class="odd">
<td class="print">(0010400)</td>
</tr>
<tr class="even">
<td class="print"><a
href="http://oldforge.etsi.org/mantis/view_user_page.php?id=508">Jacob
Wieland - Spirent</a>   </td>
</tr>
<tr class="odd">
<td class="print">29-11-2011 14:26   </td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table></td>
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<td class="print">To summarize my understanding of the discussion:<br />
<br />
As far as I understood it, table 14 was introduced to add a restriction
that should help the developer of a testsuite which uses some library
api which requires certain restricted templates that should be
derivations of some base template as parameters and should be safe in
doing so.<br />
<br />
The argument is that if the restriction in Table 14 is lifted, tools
would not be able to impose that restriction on the usage of the api,
i.e. the user would be allowed to give templates derived from the base
template which would have weaker restrictions than the base template,
leading to potential problems at runtime. To avoid this, a
non-syntactical relationship between the base template and the derived
template is assumed such that the derived template can safely be used
where ever the base-template could be used. It is assumed that other
ways of ascertaining the safe usage of templates do not exist.<br />
<br />
In my opinion/experience, this is not true, as it is possible at compile
time for most template expressions to determine whether they respect the
demanded template restriction or not by inferring the *actual* template
restriction of the expression. Only for those template expressions where
this cannot be ascertained, so that the expression *maybe* can fulfill
the restriction, a runtime check is necessary in all places where the
restriction shall be imposed. In the case that the restriction *cannot*
be fulfilled, a compile-time error can be issued. This will be the case
(regardless of the removal of table 14) if, for instance, any *actual*
present-, omit- or unrestricted-template is given as actual parameter to
a value-template formal parameter and then used in its definition.<br />
<br />
The inference of the *actual* restriction of a template (in contrast to
the *declared* template restriction) must take into account the
template-restrictions of its formal parameters (if any) and the actual
inferrable restriction of the base template (for derived templates) and
of course the sub-expressions of the template.<br />
<br />
Even in the presence of table 14 it is not always possible to ascertain
that a parameterized value-template that is derived from another
value-template is an *actual* value-template (e.g. if it has
unrestricted formal template parameters or uses unrestricted template
variables). In that case, a runtime check to see if the demanded
value-restriction is respected for an instantiation of that template
must be done anyway.<br />
<br />
So, keeping the restrictions of table 14 does not achieve anything as
templates that are declared as having the right restriction could still
have the wrong restriction (depending on their parameter instantiations)
while templates that have the wrong restriction declared but *could*
have the right restriction, also depending on the instantiation of their
parameters, cannot be rejected, either.<br />
<br />
For me, this can only lead to the conclusion that table 14 can be safely
removed without any repercussions whatsoever. I will gladly revise my
opinon if someone can show me a scenario where at compile-time it cannot
be ascertained that a template-restriction is fulfilled if the
restriction of table 14 is lifted where it could be ascertained if it
was not.</td>
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<td class="print">(0010427)</td>
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<td class="print"><a
href="http://oldforge.etsi.org/mantis/view_user_page.php?id=127">Gyorgy
Rethy</a>   </td>
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<td class="print">30-11-2011 10:49   </td>
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<td class="print">As we have no consensus and only 3 days left from the
STF's last working session, this issue has to be shifted to 2012.</td>
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<td class="print">(0010780)</td>
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<td class="print"><a
href="http://oldforge.etsi.org/mantis/view_user_page.php?id=127">Gyorgy
Rethy</a>   </td>
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<td class="print">10-07-2012 19:29   </td>
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<td class="print">Template restrictions was introduced on 3GPP request
and be suitable to TF160's use cases. The current CR doesn't provide a
use case, while changing the standard would need a reason.</td>
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<td class="print">(0010808)</td>
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<td class="print"><a
href="http://oldforge.etsi.org/mantis/view_user_page.php?id=508">Jacob
Wieland - Spirent</a>   </td>
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<td class="print">11-07-2012 10:16   </td>
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<td class="print">We provided a use case - see your own comment above.
So, the CR still is warranted.</td>
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<td class="print">(0010891)</td>
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<td class="print"><a
href="http://oldforge.etsi.org/mantis/view_user_page.php?id=127">Gyorgy
Rethy</a>   </td>
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<td class="print">12-07-2012 15:51   </td>
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<td class="print">It was not my comment, it says "STF discussion 28/11":
I have just noted what was told during a working meeting. The relation
of this use case to the CR to be clarified, as any templates retrieved
from traces can be defined as simple templates without restictions and
to derive any other kind of templates from it - with or without
restriction, as needed.</td>
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<td class="print">(0010894)</td>
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<td class="print"><a
href="http://oldforge.etsi.org/mantis/view_user_page.php?id=508">Jacob
Wieland - Spirent</a>   </td>
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<td class="print">12-07-2012 16:11   <br />
(edited on: 12-07-2012 16:23)</td>
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<td class="print">Unfortunately, this is not true.<br />
<br />
If I do not generate the templates as value-templates - even though they
ARE in effect value-templates -, then it is not allowed for me to use
them in places where only value-templates are accepted. This is an
unacceptable restriction.<br />
<br />
Thus, this would force me to generate the templates as unrestricted
templates and then derive new value-restricted templates from them which
do not change anything. Since the number of templates should be kept as
small as possible for the purpose of usability and not cluttering of the
namespace, this is also unacceptable.<br />
<br />
The main problem that I still have, though, is, that the table
introduces this restriction to achieve a goal which is not achieved.
This makes the table not only couterproductive to our use case, but
useless for the use case it was introduced for, as well.<br />
<br />
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<td class="print">(0010941)</td>
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<td class="print"><a
href="http://oldforge.etsi.org/mantis/view_user_page.php?id=127">Gyorgy
Rethy</a>   </td>
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<td class="print">19-07-2012 17:02   <br />
(edited on: 19-07-2012 17:05)</td>
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<td class="print">I have checked it with TF160 and lifting this
limitation would not cause a problem for them. Therefore I'm not
opposing any more, we can go ahead.<br />
<br />
See proposed solution in CR5961_resolution_v1.doc.<br />
<br />
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<td class="print">(0010985)</td>
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<td class="print"><a
href="http://oldforge.etsi.org/mantis/view_user_page.php?id=508">Jacob
Wieland - Spirent</a>   </td>
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<td class="print">07-08-2012 15:44   </td>
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<td class="print">I agree.</td>
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<td class="print">(0011007)</td>
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<td class="print"><a
href="http://oldforge.etsi.org/mantis/view_user_page.php?id=81">Ina
Schieferdecker</a>   </td>
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<td class="print">09-08-2012 13:54   </td>
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<td class="print">as proposed.</td>
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